Corrupted-Justice Article

Phillip Eide, the Portland, Oregon man who owns the vigilante website perverted-justice.com has made numerous statements which are intended to deceive his followers into believing that their vigilante tactics are actually accepted by, if not endorsed by most legitimate law enforcement agencies. Although his site very seldom provides actual quotes to back up these claims, Mr. Eide continuously supplies his users with his significantly slanted interpretation of what is being said publicly about perverted-justice.com.

In an effort to ensure the public is aware of what is actually being said about the vigilante group, Corrupted-Justice.com has taken the effort to compile a list of quotes from the considerable number of media reports that have been compiled in our "News" section. (Please click the "News" link above to read the full articles.)

The 75 quotes listed below have been made by a significant number of respected Law Enforcement officials, activists, professionals from various Child Protection Services and well-known and respected journalists. They all relate to the activities being carried out by the perverted-justice vigilantes, and provide a true insight into how most knowledgeable people feel about perverted-justice.com.

Marisa Schultz (Journalist) – USA Today – 3-16-2004
"Online vigilantes hunt down pedophiles"

While some praise the effort, many law enforcement officials say the site leads to few arrests and may even impede growing efforts to police the Web.

Police officials say they can't rely on the Perverted Justice chats alone to arrest someone.

To fight Internet crimes, Hackel uses volunteers who are trained at catching predators in online chat rooms. These trained civilians are different than Perverted Justice volunteers because their work ultimately will lead to arrests

Bill Liczbinski (Wayne County (Mich.) Deputy) – USA Today – 3-16-2004
"Online vigilantes hunt down pedophiles"

But from a law enforcement standpoint, those people should be in jail. It's one thing to put their picture up on the Web site and embarrass them, it's another to make them pay for the crime they committed

Mark Hackel (Macomb County (Mich.) Sheriff) – USA Today – 3-16-2004
"Online vigilantes hunt down pedophiles"

What people don't realize, if a person pulls over drunken drivers and then turns them over to the police (for an arrest), we didn't witness that. Same with the chats. We are going to say, 'That's nice. But how do we know who that is with certainty?

Tim Lorenzen (law enforcement coordinator for i-SAFE, a nonprofit Internet safety organization) – USA Today – 3-16-2004
"Online vigilantes hunt down pedophiles"

It's really easy to just log on as someone different. This site may have the best intentions, but they are going to possibly screw up an investigation. They are trying to expose pedophiles, but they are allowing them to get away without prosecution.

Julia Scheeres (Journalist) – Wired Magazine – 3-18-2004
"Vigilantes Troll for Pedophiles"

The sensational reports have irked some communities, which have accused the group and the TV stations of endangering local children by bringing sexual predators into their neighborhoods.

Law enforcement officials and seasoned activists who work as decoys in Internet pedophilia investigations have also denounced the group's methods.

Although the men listed on the Perverted Justice website are mercilessly hectored by the group's supporters, few have been charged with a crime.

But police volunteers undergo extensive background checks and training on how to chat in a way that will build a criminal case against would-be pedophiles. Volunteers for Perverted Justice undergo no such training.

Sgt. Nick Battaglia (heads the police department's child exploitation unit in San Jose, California) – Wired Magazine – 3-18-2004
"Vigilantes Troll for Pedophiles"

The biggest difference between them and us is that we are governed by entrapment laws. Their hearts are in the right place, but the law needs to be enforced by someone who is qualified to enforce them. They need to be very careful or they could get in trouble themselves.

If they're insinuating that someone is committing a criminal offense and putting their photograph and personal information online, they could be held libel in a civil suit.

Julie Posey (Activist) – Wired Magazine – 3-18-2004
"Vigilantes Troll for Pedophiles"

These Perverted-Justice.com investigator wannabes think it's so easy to go into a chat room and just start talking, and for them it is, because they have no goals in mind other than humiliating someone and getting media attention.

Kyle Michaelis (Journalist) – The Daily Nebraskan – 3-9-2004
"Perverted-justice.com just perverted"

Now, this is a well-meaning cause, almost ingenious in its planning and operation. But almost as disturbing as these older men trying to solicit much younger girls in the most vulgar and graphic language imaginable is the delight Perverted-justice.com takes in catching this despicable sort at their worst.

This is fun for them -- a game. They enjoy doing this, justifying that sadist's joy with the notion they are making the world, or at least the Internet, a safer place.

At every opportunity, the Web site insults and pokes fun at the miserable bastards exposed by their machinations. The site has been made totally reader-friendly, even comical, catering to the unspoken impulse that revels in other's perversions and personal misfortunes.

Then, there is the merchandising, a recent addition, made necessary by the site's increased traffic, as it has become an Internet hotspot. Perverted-justice.com fittingly is funded by the sale of self-congratulatory, tongue-in-cheek T-shirts reading, "See You Later, Masturbator. After Awhile, Pedophile," not to mention $9.99 thongs reminding, "Contents aged at least 18 years."

Jason Straziuso (Journalist) – Houston Chronicle – 3-27-2004
"Law enforcement officials leery of sex stings by media"

But federal and local law enforcement officials say the reports and the groups that help facilitate them do more harm than good because the "stings" don't lead to convictions and may put people in danger.

Michelle Collins (director of the exploited child unit for the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children.) – Houston Chronicle – 3-27-2004
"Law enforcement officials leery of sex stings by media"

Even well-intended grass-roots undercover investigators can create more harm than good, and we firmly believe that law enforcement investigations should be left to trained law enforcement officials

Linda Vizi(FBI spokeswoman.) – Houston Chronicle – 3-27-2004
“Law enforcement officials leery of sex stings by media"

To lure them to some place and post their picture somewhere doesn't stop what they're doing. You're not going to embarrass these guys into stopping

Katya Gifford (program manager for CyberAngels) – Chicago Tribune – 5-9-2004
"Did vigilante catch pedophile, or wreck a life?"

Give me one hour and I can create a fake chat log and Photoshopped pictures of you that look like they were taken with a Web cam. It wouldn't be hard to frame an innocent person.

Mike Wendland (Journalist) – The Detroit Free Press – 9-23-2003
"Vigilantes on Internet create trouble for cops"

Police say such vigilante methods don't help them bring pedophiles to justice. Graves says the tactics brought him to the verge of suicide.

"They've appointed themselves prosecutor, judge, jury and executioner without any semblance of legal checks and balances," Muawad said. "They have to be stopped."

Police and more established Internet safety groups agree, citing the potential to do irreparable damage to someone's reputation by what amounts to hearsay.

Katya Gifford (program manager for CyberAngels) – Detroit Free Press – 9-23-2003 "Vigilantes on Internet create trouble for cops"

Catching real pedophiles is a job for the professionals

These people are amateurs. We believe pedophiles should be arrested and put away, but that needs to be done by real police officers. All this vigilante site does is tip off the real pedophiles who are not caught at all but just learn how to be more careful

I can see where someone could pose as someone else or someone could just be fooling around, and then this site could then totally trash an innocent person's reputation

The Daily Southtown (No Byline Listed) – 5-12-04
"Internet vigilantes step over the line"

Perverted-Justice.com runs the risk of falsely accusing innocent people, who might lose their jobs and reputations as a result. Just as the alleged pedophiles are duped into believing they're communicating with children, the Web site's volunteers could be tricked into "outing" an innocent person.

Law enforcement agencies all over the country are working overtime to combat cases of identity theft; how do Perverted-Justice.com and similar vigilante Web sites know that they're not being set up by someone who is not the person he is claiming to be?

The Hollister Free Lance (No Byline listed) – 7-1-04
"Perverted Justice has sabotaged a chance at a police investigation of an alleged pedophile"

Perverted Justice not only blew the chance to catch a potential pedophile, they went accusing this person of heinous crime in an unverifiable way, according to police. If the man is innocent, as his lawyer claims, his reputation and livelihood are at risk.

This is vigilante justice that bypasses due process of law. It has no place in this community no matter how good the group’s intentions are.

Sgt. Nick Battaglia (Heads the police department's child exploitation unit in San Jose, California) - The Hollister Free Lance - 7-1-04
"Perverted Justice has sabotaged a chance at a police investigation of an alleged pedophile"

Their heart’s in the right place, but they have no business doing what they’re doing because there’s no way of checking to find out if the data is valid

Sheriff Mark Hackel (Macomb County) - 3-19-04
We don't know for sure that this teacher is the one who wrote these Internet messages. That's like buying a bag of cocaine and then telling the police (who the seller is).

Henry Katz (Attorney for David Satter) - 7-16-04
Their objective is to put stuff out in the public and ruin people

Alejandro Bopido-Memba (Journalist) – The Detroit Free Press – 2-12-2004
"TV report, vigilante Web group no help, cops say"

Often, however, it can be hard to determine who initiated contact when dealing with groups like Perverted Justice. Sometimes the vigilantes initiate the contact, police say, hindering prosecutions of such cases

He [ Macomb County Sheriff Mark Hackel ] warned that vigilantes don't necessarily have the qualifications to conduct an operation that would eventually lead to an arrest, adding: "We don't have the public monitoring speeders on the road."

Liczbinski and his fellow officers say they understand the sentiment behind groups like Perverted Justice. But their efforts can compromise law enforcement's ability to get a handle on what is fast becoming a problem of epidemic proportions.

William Liczbinski (an investigator with the Wayne County Sheriff's Internet Crime Unit) - Detroit Free Press – 2-12-2004
"TV report, vigilante Web group no help, cops say"

In the short term, what these Web sites are doing might be good. But in the long run, I believe they are doing a bad thing. They should work with law enforcement and let investigators work these people and put them in jail where they belong.

Jim McKay (Reporter: Government and Technolgy.net) - Policeone.com – 11/04/2004
"Online Vigilantes: Are Citizens' Groups Overstepping Their Bounds In Trying To Reduce Crime?"

But do we encourage private citizens to go out there and solicit this stuff? No, we're not allowed to and we wouldn't anyway.

Jones of the San Diego Police Department said his Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force takes tips from anyone, but that information must be confirmed by law enforcement. Evidence provided by groups such as Perverted Justice is almost useless, he said.

For law enforcement, clearing someone of being suspected of such a crime is just as important as getting a conviction because the tag of child molester is not easy to shake

Although Perverted Justice said it never initiates conversations in private IM chat rooms, some conversations could be construed as crossing the line in terms of enticement

Sgt. Dave Jones (San Diego Police Department's Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force) - Policeone.com – 11/04/2004
"Online Vigilantes: Are Citizens' Groups Overstepping Their Bounds In Trying To Reduce Crime?"

If you see something bad out there, you have every right to take action and report it…But do we encourage private citizens to go out there and solicit this stuff? No, we're not allowed to and we wouldn't anyway.

It's actually more work for us than if we find the leads ourselves because we have to go back and redo everything they did to confirm what they did.

It's a tough issue to do an investigation correctly so you maintain the scene of evidence and the integrity of the communications you're looking at.

We've had them hit on undercover operations we were going on. Law enforcement has gone back to them and said 'Hey, we're working this site. Back off.' They basically go, 'Screw you. We're doing what we want.

Tom Kelley (spokesman for Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott) - Policeone.com – 11/04/2004
"Online Vigilantes: Are Citizens' Groups Overstepping Their Bounds In Trying To Reduce Crime?"

We believe that we and other law enforcement agencies need to do those kinds of investigations undercover…And bring a clean, clear case to court for trial and not through another channel not recognized as legitimate law enforcement.

Cédric Laurant (policy council for the Electronic Privacy Information Center) - Policeone.com – 11/04/2004
"Online Vigilantes: Are Citizens' Groups Overstepping Their Bounds In Trying To Reduce Crime?"

The major concern is that they actually impede law enforcement investigation

But if they are real pedophiles, they will try other ways to satisfy their urges

Jim Hedger (Journalist: Stepforth Online Journal) – 8/4/04 – The Stepforth Journal
"The Net Reality: Cyber Vigilantes.. The Good or the Bad, All are Ugly"

Sometimes cited as being online heroes, the vigilantes often forget a central tenant of law in a free society, the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Shannon Prather (Journalist) The Pioneer Press – 12/03/04
"Teacher accused of explicit Net chats; Police investigating; teacher put on leave"

St. Paul police spokesman Paul Schnell said the group has referred cases to local police and the Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force, but said authorities don't endorse their tactics. Schnell said investigations conducted by vigilance groups can pose challenges for law enforcement.

Jonathan Silverstein (Journalist) ABC News – 1/5/05
"Controversial Web Site Claims to 'Out' Would-Be Child Molesters; Protecting Kids or Perverting Justice?"

Critics say the group -- whose members insist on anonymity themselves -- is nothing more than an Internet lynch mob that operates in the same kinds of shadows they claim to illuminate.

But critics argue that embarrassing alleged would-be child molesters doesn't do anything to deal with the problem.

Because Perverted-Justice volunteers work under condition of anonymity, critics say it's hard to know who to hold responsible when and if a mistake is made.

Television stations participating in the stings have come under fire from critics who say the busts tarnish the reputations of people who have been convicted of no crime. They say that because of the nature of the accusations -- even if they are ultimately proved baseless -- the individuals' reputations are often ruined.

Critics also say that exposing would-be child molesters is the job of professional law enforcement officers, not a group of amateurs.

Julie Posey (Activist) – ABC News – 1/5/05
"Controversial Web Site Claims to 'Out' Would-Be Child Molesters; Protecting Kids or Perverting Justice?”

I think that, at the very least it's a gross invasion of privacy and I really don't believe that it does any good

What it does is embarrass them for the moment, but then they'll go and get a different screen name and know to check things out a little more thoroughly next time.

I personally believe it's a bunch of vigilantes

Brad Russ (director of training for the national government-funded Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force) - The Roanoke Times- 1/22/05
"Online Group Involved in man’s Arrest”

On the one hand, we applaud their motivation to rid the Internet of predators, but there's a better way to go about it. They've essentially gone too far.

Tina Schwartz (director of communication for NCMEC) - The Roanoke Times- 1/22/05
"Online Group Involved in man’s Arrest"

It's really not the safest, most effective way to combat this problem. It really needs to be left up to law enforcement

From what I've seen in some of these other cases with Perverted Justice, they embarrass the people, but I don't know that complete justice is ever served.

Lindsey Nair (Journalist) - The Roanoke Times- 1/22/05
"Online Group Involved in man’s Arrest"

Bedford County sheriff's Capt. Rick Wiita with the cybercrime task force Operation Blue Ridge Thunder says it is dangerous to tip off a suspect before police become involved.

Lucas and Wiita said citizen tips can be invaluable and must always be checked out by police, but they don't condone groups such as PeeJ.

If you aren't trained, you might corrupt a potential case

Leslie Blade and Gregory Flannery (Journalists) – The Cincinnati City Beat – 6/15/05
"The Wild, Wild Web"

In December 2004, Bradley Russ, director of training for the U.S. Department of Justice's Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force, told The New York Sun he didn't trust Perverted Justice.

Det. Bill Liczbinski (investigates crimes against children for the Wayne County Sheriff's Department in Detroit) - The Cincinnati City Beat – 6/15/05
"The Wild, Wild Web"

My unit and prosecutor's office would never ever sign a warrant based on what Perverted Justice posted on their Web site… When we first saw the site, we pointed and laughed.

Bradley Russ (director of training for the U.S. Department of Justice's Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force) - The Cincinnati City Beat – 6/15/05
"The Wild, Wild Web"

Perverted Justice's 'aggressive' tactics often go against national standards. By accepting child pornography online from pedophiles to make a better case, the contributors at Perverted Justice were themselves possessing unlawful contraband, and federal authorities are now considering whether or not to seize their computers.

To engage in investigations, pose as children and transmit and receive child pornography, that's going beyond the boundaries of what they should be doing.

Joe Deters (Hamilton County Prosecutor) - The Cincinnati City Beat – 6/15/05
"The Wild, Wild Web"

My office is not going to take a case that Perverted Justice brings to us. We will rely on the sheriff's office to develop those cases themselves.

Lt. Larry Jacobs (in charge of Arizona's Regional Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force) - The Cincinnati City Beat – 6/15/05
"The Wild, Wild Web"

When they post those chats, there is no proof that is actually the chat that came from the other party

We refuse to work with them because they won't give up their computer for evidentiary purposes. We don't want the chats -- we want the computer