www.Corrupted-Justice.com

[NoPervertedJustice]

[Dodger]

The first of many that immediately come to my mind is the case of the then-17 year old who was "busted" by PJ for a sex-chat with a "14 year old". (He has since turned 18 )

I can't immediately recall his screen name (perhaps someone here can help with that? I believe he is still posted there) but the gist was, this kid was given the same treatment as virtually every other bust. Throughout the reactions forum were posted comments like "It doesn't matter if he's 17. What he did was wrong" and "Let's hang this guy!".

Jesus Christ, he was a 17 year old KID for God's sake! He's not a pedophile!! He's a horny teenager!!! Now, thanks to PJ, this innocent kid will probably spend the rest of his life in therapy, if not worse.

And yet, you PJ promoters CONTINUE to insist that what you're doing is a good thing. Don't even DREAM about arguing "Well, that one might have been a mistake, but the REST were valid". EVERY SINGLE "BUST" on PJ is invalid. Please, don't make me list the reasons why yet again, they can be found throughout the internet, and all through these forums.

PJ is simply a place where people with very little power in their own lives gather to feed off the power that is handed to them by being members of this "gang", plain and simple. As I posted in another thread, they simply lucked in in finding a "cause" that so easily protects them by using public outrage at online predation as a shield. It takes very little courage to jump on that bandwagon. Where courage comes in is having the fortitude to re-examine their methods and motives, and realizing that they are so very wrong, doing something to help put a stop to it. THAT takes courage.

Dodger

[NoPervertedJustice]

[PJ Buster]

Finally some of the tearing down of hero TIG (Frank Fencepost AKA Tattooed Indian Guy) has subsided. Some of the increase of hero worship of AngryGerman AKA Xavier Von Erck has subsided as well. Finally some people inside PJ are starting to scratch their heads.

shund (Joined: 26 Jun 2002, Posts: 469, Posts per day: [0.69])
Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 8:16 pm
"I just don't know enough to say whether I support this or not. I never cared for TIG...but something about this isn't kosher. His banning? Fuck, I don't care about that. AG's the admin...he runs the place, he decides who to ban. Regardless of the circumstances, TIG's behavior as shown by the chat log could have potentially discredited PeeJ in a serious way...so his banning seems like a good move from my perspective. However, I'm a little at-odds with airing the rest of his "dirty laundry" in such a public manner. Bringing up the extra-marrital affair seemed out of place. In fact, a simple "TIG has been banned for acts that could be damaging to the reputation and credibility of Perverted-Justice.com" would have sufficed. That's why I'm not too sure about this thread. It's one thing to have strength and be able to use it for enforcement. It's another thing entirely to grease up and flex your muscles. The action behind the thread is the strength. The thread itself? Looks a little greasy."

AngryGerman (Joined: 24 May 2002, Posts: 4807, Posts per day: [6.7], Location: Portland, Oregon)
Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 8:47 pm
[qhoteed the above, followed by] Which would have been translated into: "Frank was a pedophile! PEEJ ARE ALL PEDOPHILES!" Better to be open and honest about people.

HistoryNut (Joined: 06 Mar 2004, Posts: 318, Posts per day: [4.89])
Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 10:26 pm
"Sometimes statements need to be made in a BIG way, airing all the dirty laundry, in order to sink in. TIG had a huge following, almost cult-like, from what I understand. Because of this, I feel like it was the only logical step that AG could take to air all of those threats and the exact nature of his transgressions. By doing this, he got rid of the stain and potentially removed his followers as well, revealing the true nature of FF. It gives merit to his decision, and shows that AG was not just in a bad mood when he banned FF, but truly justifed."

Professor Chaos (Joined: 07 Aug 2003, Posts: 338, Posts per day: [1.22], Location: Pittsburgh, PA)
Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 12:29 am
"I agree with AG that it was necessary to reveal to the public eye Frank's actions. That in itself goes to the legitimacy of the site - in order to show why he was banned. I still disagree that all of his busts were removed. That just gives the critics a hook to argue that somehow his busts were not legitimate. AG has said his busts are legitimate, but to have them removed, I think, gives the critics a leg to stand on to say that the busts were possibly not legitimate and the legitmacy of the busts are the backbone of this site. In my opinion, the busts should remain up and TIG's name should not appear as the contributor. That and, as I have said, it gives a windfall to the busts which should not happen."

hawk (Joined: 04 Nov 2002, Posts: 1004, Posts per day: [1.82])
Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 6:49 am
"OK. I've calmed down enough to say this.... I agree with Fran being banned. that needed to be done. I do think that the whole conversation should have been posted. Not just Franks comments. There are three sides to his story. His side, Her side, and the Truth. Now, we are never going to find out the entire Truth. Thant's a given. But to post only one side seems unfair to me. I do belive that Frank was wrong to get involved the way he did. That gives me even more reason to belive that you don't mess around with people you work with. The girl(s) he was messing with should have not gotton involved either. Use some restraint people. Think before you climb someones bones."

shund (Joined: 26 Jun 2002, Posts: 469, Posts per day: [0.69])
Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 8:02 am
"People are always going to be looking for ways to attack PeeJ because it's successful and perceived as controversial. Even with you elaboration, you say that people are still accusing TIG of being a pedophile. Proof positive that no matter what, it's going to happen. I can understand wanting to limit such a response as much as possible, but I can see no indication that going to the extent of saying TIG is "fucking" another married member was the only (or even best) way to approach this. A simple, "Frank threatened a phone verifier" would have been enough. And while I can appreciate the AG fanclub wanting to speak FOR Xavier, parroting what he's saying and what has already been said isn't really necessary. Especially this line about, "It had to be said because PeeJ has integrity!" What the fuck is that?

philipw (Joined: 31 Aug 2003, Posts: 2048, Posts per day: [8.13], Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada)
Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 9:33 am
"I back Shund on this. Back on the first page of this thread, I asked people to show a little restraint and not to use this opportunity to bash anyone. The bashing is now showing up all over the web. Public gossip seldom does any organization any good. A rulling came down from on high, was explained, the salient details were provided, and that should have been the end of it. This thread should then have been locked. There is no way in the world that the water cooler gossip in email, PM or IM would have been prevented between us. I am as guilty of that as anyone, and thru that gossip know much more then I really care to. There was a problem. AG in his wisdom, fixed the problem. He explained his actions, and offered the warning that like trangressions would be acted on just as swiftly. Yesterday, I expressed gladness to Scully, that this thread had vanished from the forums. I am sad to see it back. It should be gone for good now.
Add two new rules to the rules section.
1. Threats of violence or violence against anyone will lead to a permanent ban. And possibly criminal actions.
2. Always remember that chat logs/emails/PM's can and will be used to provide information on more then the people that PJ tries to hunt. Be careful what you say or type.
And for pete's sake, there is a reason why most companies and organizations have rules about fraternization! - Philip W"

[marrissa]

Hey all. For my first post heres a tidbit. Frank threatened Pj member Daughter who he was fucking and he claims he didnt fuck the married woman

[mntc]

HI marrissa

Welcome and post us some more

Seriously we are always happy for new members and new posts - particularly that aid the cause - despite what people say we are an anti-childmolester site too - we just don't want to do it the PJ way (see my www link)

We also don't like the authoritarian Rule of Mr AG himself - so any thing that can help help us.
I actually have symphathy for Frank - god knows who he was but that semi-public roasting and his mother and all - that was really uncalled for. If AG in his great wisdom wanted to drop his partner - then thats not the way to do it -

So have a good time here and post us some more

Morgan
_________________
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into the abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee.

[aslan]

Welcome Marissa

we definitely need a balance to all the guys in here

please come on down and feel welcome and enjoy your stay
_________________
Trust is a flower that grows under the light of honesty.

The most beautiful thing about truth is that it contains all possible lies.

[Stef]

Welcome Marrissa-
Feel free to post your thoughts and ideas here!

Stef-
_________________
The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be. ~Socrates

[PJ Buster]

[Pinback]

Welcome marrissa!

So very glad to meet you.

[ff101uc]

What you know about me, you silly dummypants, is my full name, my address, and my phone number. Also my email, my Yahoo ID, and everything else that I've made so completely public. I'm not hard to find, so why is it none of you have had the balls to take the steps you swore you'd take if you ever found me or my "cronies" in real life? Step up to the plate. I'm not running away, I never have. I put my address on my blog months ago, and I really don't believe any of you is stupid enough to have missed it. But if you did, well...

Allow me to reiterate:

Frank Fencepost
6405 NE Hazel Dell Ave
Vancouver, WA 98665
(360) 513-3529.

YIM- tattooed_indian_guy

Email- if you don't have it yet, I'm not giving it to you. I got a new one not long ago, because I was having some serious spam issues. But it's not hard to find.

So now that y'all know who I am, who the fuck are you? Do you have the balls to give up your identities? No? Didn't think so. God, how... OH! I know the word! HOW HYPOCRITICAL!!!! Ha.

Now, for my public statement.

No, I do not work with www.perverted-justice.com anymore. No, I do not really like most of the people there. I never pretended to. I do not like followers, I believe followers are nothing more than dead weight. There are too many followers at PJ, and I've been saying that both in public and in private for many months.

Yes, I still fully support the goals of the site, and I wish them all the success in the world. And they shall recieve it. Yes, I fully intend to continue in my work, I just won't be doing it with www.perverted-justice.com. However, I can still say that I am the co-founder of PJ.com- no one can ever take that away. PJ was my brainchild, and to this day it's the best idea I've ever had. I wish them all the best, and I'm proud I could be a part of it.

No, you won't be talking me into giving out all the personal information I have on individual PJ'ers. Yes, I've got plenty of phone numbers. Can you have them? Ha, I think not. No, you won't convince me to "switch teams" simply by showing me a little "Christian kindness". Good fucking god, people, do you know how long I've been at this? I'll tell you how long. Seven years. Do you think, in that time, that I haven't heard the things you're saying a million times already? Get over yourselves. Just because one little pissant (Xavier) revealed personal information about me to the world (and then refused me the right to defend myself) doesn't mean I'm gonna give out the personal info of 100's of PJ'ers I've been in contact with. Not at all. It's not out of a sense of friendship, either. It's a simple matter of right and wrong. Those people are making an effort to improve the world for people who deserve a good life, and to make life hell for those who don't. I support that endevour, and their information is safe with me.

Now, unless you'd like to finally file one of these lawsuits I've heard so much about, I'd suggest just letting this silly little thread fall off the front page, kids.


Sils te mordent mords les.

[chris]

NoPervertedJustice knows the details far more than I do, but one of the worst aspects of the Wenatchee witch hunt was how the whole thing started-From the (adopted/step?) daughter of one of the town's detectives. It's been awhile since I read about the case, but I think the cop got to the point where, not only did he know the child was lying, but actually encouraging her to lie-And from there, the slime engulfed the town-specifically anyone who dared disagree with Det. Perez-Mainly poor folks, those with mental defects, and the town pastor, who had the nerve to start publicly voicing doubts about the ever-widening circle of those smeared by the Detective. Those who had the $ to fight back legally were able to avoid any jail time or guilty verdict. To this day, Det. Perez has NEVER apologized for HIS X. von Irk approach.
The McMartin Preschool case is one of the WORST miscarriages of justice in this area-Ray Buckey sat in jail for 5 years before being found not guilty on numerous charges and acquitted on all others-The jury felt that some of the children HAD been abused, but couldn't determine just which adults were responsible. There were lurid allegations of tunnels, intergenerational satanic cults, torture of children and small animals and kiddie porn-Not one of these allegations had the least shred of physical prooof to back them up-Keep in mind that, according to the prosecution, these acts were going on at all times during the day, when various adults and parents were coming and going-yet no one noticed anything amiss. The charges were levelled by a mother of a preschooler-This same woman accused not only the staff of molesting her child, but also various cops and an entire city council-During the trial, she killed herself-but the trial continued anyway
Other cases include-Gilmer, tx (I saved the articles from the Dallas Morning News-I'll have to dig them up, but when I do, I'll post the whole story) The Little Rascals Day Care Center case-the subject of numerous PBS Frontline episodes, The YWCA case here in El Paso-the FIRST of these cases at the very end of the 1970's. Two workers with NO arrest records of any kind, Mickey Noble and Gayle Stickler Dove were charged by a politically ambitious Asst DA with numerous counts of child abuse-Noble was convicted on the basis of videotaped interviews between the children and social workers. Dove was found NOT guilty on the basis of the same tapes. One crucial fact-children who are harangued by adults will eventually say whatever the adult wants them to say. The ?'s asked of the children were NOT honestly phrased-It wasn't "Were you touched?", but rather "Where were you touched?" That one word was crucial in the interviews, as a very young child won't see the difference between the two.
And lastly, in a case that the PJ hacks/trolls should DEFINITELY learn about-in terms of harassing their victims by telling them what will happen to child molesters in prison, Dale Akiki in San Diego.
Akiki at the time was a handyman at a local church and had an unusual head shape and facial structure-Some parents claimed his looks frightened their children, but nothing was done, until they started a whispering campaign to the DA and the church higher-ups. The congregation turned on him, and he was arrested and charged-this despite a very low IQ. Now, pay attention PJ lovers, because this part blows your what-happens-to-child-molesters-in-prison harangue
The other inmates did NOT go after Akiki physically-in fact, they saw a major screw job in progress and actually rallied around Akiki, to the point where the inmates were actually PROTECTING Akiki from any physical harm from some of the nastier inmates. In the end, Akiki was found not guilty and released-but by then, the damage was done.
In fact, in every single one of these types of cases-especially if there are allegations of intergenerational satanic cults-the convictions are being overturned in almost every single case-Also applies to cases involving "Recovered" memories-See the "False Memory Foundation"
In every single one of these lurid-types of cases, there's no physical or even circumstantial proof that the abuses occured.
I'll predict that this will be the same result, in the long term, of various PJ allegations-except, hopefully, X von Irk and the rest of the PJ hacks/trolls face the same music they inflict on their victims, and end up with the justice and legal ruin they ALL so richly deserve

[chris]

Real Quick
In the YWCA case, Noble's conviction was overturned on appeal, after the judge struck down the videotapes as evidence-But by then, Noble's life here in El Paso was ruined-Information about this case can be found from the reporting of Debbie Nathan-I believe she can be reached via the "Texas Observer"
These cases are particulary troubling as the adults who were found guilty had NO criminal record of any kind when it came to molesting/abusing children-I can't think of a single case where an adult, minus physical trauma to the brain, suddenly started sexually offending against children-The lack of a legal record in this case should ALWAYS raise blaring red flags for any prosecutor considering bringing charges.
Any of the cases listed above can probably be referenced via a Google search-thank god for the internet

[aslan]

But Frank what about the email ???

[NoPervertedJustice]

Frank,

I don't think you will find anyone here on "the side" of child molesters and let me speak for myself when I find pedophiles disgusting. Speaking for myself I am married and don't have time for chat rooms anyway so I stay away. I find chat rooms boring.

Even if I did visit a chat room I would never talk to someone much less older then I am (40ish) because I don't have much in common with someone 25 years old and certainly nothing in common with a 13 year old female.

I find most, if not all, what busts say in their chats disgusting but not being a follower you will excuse me if I don't jump on the bandwagon... yours or anyone elses.

I believe there is a real danger of an innocent man getting caught up in PJ's net and one innocent manage damaged is not worth 600, 800 or even 1,000 busts. Has it happened? I think it has just look at the bust in North Carolina that almost nailed an innocent man. January 1, 2004 the "bust" claimed someone else used his computer while he was out on a date and it certainly looks like this was the case. What would have happened to this young man if the real perp had not had a photo of himself to upload?

This guy who was originally targeted as a wannabe pedophile would have been screwed is what would have happened. His life would have been ruined just as if he had been branded a pedophile in a court of law.

And then there are the 18, 19 and 20 year olds who allow their hormones to run amuck. I think they are stupid; hell their are idiots and should be horsewhipped but not branded a pedophile because an 18 year old lusting after a 14 year old isn't one.

Like I said, he's stupid but not a pedo.
_________________
"PJ is simply a place where people with very little power in their own lives gather to feed off the power that is handed to them by being members of this "gang", plain and simple. "
Dodger